Joe Grundy

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Posts by Joe Grundy

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  27

  Do Elders Have A Reasonable Expectation Of Privacy During Judicial Committees?

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i should point out that i'm not a lawyer and i'm not qualified to give legal advice.. there has been much discussion about judicial committees lately and how to handle and possibly record them.. naturally, the question of the legality of recording judicial committees is a concern.

  my understanding of the law in the u.s. is that it is legal to record private conversations in most states provided at least one party consents to the recording.

  in the other states, it is required to get the consent of all parties to record a private conversation.. however, it would be reasonable to ask whether or not a judicial committee is a private conversation and whether the elders have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

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  Joe Grundy

  In reply to the question in OP (again based on the position in England & Wales) but it is, AFAIK, a fairly general concept.

  'Privilege' - i.e. the absolute confidentiality of certain material and the fact that there can be no enforced disclosure in legal proceedings, applies to specified material, commonly 'legal privilege' (discussion between lawyer and client), medical records, and the confession of a penitent to clergy (note previous discussions on the latter - if the clergy report the confession it loses its confidentiality).

  One point sometimes missed is that in all 'privilege' cases the 'privilege' belongs to the individual, not to the other party.

  So, if the individual willingly discloses the content of the legal discussions, or his medical records, or his confession, etc., the other party has no claim whatsoever to enforce confidentiality - the privilege is not his to claim.

  This, it seems to me, would apply to JCs. If the 'subject' (or 'poor shmuck', in the vernacular) who is the only one who could legally claim the privilege of confidentiality chooses to waive that, no-one else can insist on it.

  Just my thoughts.
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  27

  Do Elders Have A Reasonable Expectation Of Privacy During Judicial Committees?

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i should point out that i'm not a lawyer and i'm not qualified to give legal advice.. there has been much discussion about judicial committees lately and how to handle and possibly record them.. naturally, the question of the legality of recording judicial committees is a concern.

  my understanding of the law in the u.s. is that it is legal to record private conversations in most states provided at least one party consents to the recording.

  in the other states, it is required to get the consent of all parties to record a private conversation.. however, it would be reasonable to ask whether or not a judicial committee is a private conversation and whether the elders have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

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  Joe Grundy

  This is an interesting discussion. (My comments are based on the law in England & Wales).

  For quite some time now, liability has been firmly placed on individual managers/persons of responsibility in civil proceedings - whether for discrimination/health & safety/employment etc. issues as well as the organisation. The organisation/employer/whatever will have one objective - to minimise its liability, often by attempting to show that it trained its managers properly and that if they did wrong they operated outside instructions or guidelines. The manager or responsible person may often be left in the middle and be 'hung out to dry'.

  This seems to me to be what the WT corporations are doing, and as cases such as Candace's (hopefully) become more frequent I foresee more and more elders becoming personally liable as the WT tries to distance itself further and further.
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  21

  WTBTS and Taxes in the UK.

  by Gill in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  the wtbts, at least here in the uk, makes loans to congregations of jws for mortgages to build kh's at a 'reasonable rate of interest'.. does the wtbts pay tax on the interest it is making, since this is clearly not a charitable earning or donation?

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  Joe Grundy

  "I doubt it. They are, after all a non-prophet organization."

  I noticed this commment above. It may be a typo or a concise and ironic comment.

  It works either way!
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  16

  Do You Ever Look Back? Should We?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm a bit unusual here, never was a jw, don't suffer from the ex- or leaving jw stuff, but i surely can sympathise with those who do.. .

  tomorrow ( 2 august) my divorce decree absolute is issued, disolving the marriage with my filipina princess.

  i'm not sad about that, per se, it will be good to get the whole sorry episode over and done with.

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  Joe Grundy

  James: "How long were you married to her, Joe Grundy?"

  Just two years, James, May 2009 until now. It wasn't the best or clearest decision I ever made in my life, but I had hopes.

  My previous (first) marriage lasted 23 years. We have two children, three grandchildren, and are, probably, closer as a divorced couple than many still-marrried couples are.

  This is a time for me to look back and to be honest, it comes a little hard. I have tried my best all of my professional life and have always tried to do my best. I don't suppose that I'm alone in thinking 'was it worth it?'. Well, I suppose, all we can do is to do our best, try and make a difference when and where we can and not spend too much time looking back.
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  16

  Do You Ever Look Back? Should We?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm a bit unusual here, never was a jw, don't suffer from the ex- or leaving jw stuff, but i surely can sympathise with those who do.. .

  tomorrow ( 2 august) my divorce decree absolute is issued, disolving the marriage with my filipina princess.

  i'm not sad about that, per se, it will be good to get the whole sorry episode over and done with.

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  Joe Grundy

  I'm a bit unusual here, never was a JW, don't suffer from the ex- or leaving JW stuff, but I surely can sympathise with those who do.

  Tomorrow ( 2 August) my divorce decree absolute is issued, disolving the marriage with my Filipina Princess. I'm not sad about that, per se, it will be good to get the whole sorry episode over and done with. Yet, when I married this lady (in far too much haste, as many told me) I had high hopes for our future.

  I still have hopes for my future and wear an optimistic smile (even if I don't feel like it sometimes). I am, in the great scheme of things, lucky. I try to look back, draw on the happy memories, learn from mistakes, and move on.

  Not always easy, though, is it?
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  126

  Who On This Site Would You Like To Meet?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are a lot of interesting people that frequent this site.. sometimes, we get an idea of what the posters are really like in "real life".

  and i'm sure i could be easily surprised by some that you think might be strong personalities because of their board presence, and in reality, they might be shy in a face to face setting.. i would enjoy meeting simon.

  simon used to be terribly annoyed by my posting and now i think he's accepted with tolerance my being here.. farkel seems like a grouchy cantankerous fellow but i think he'd be very interesting company!.

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  Joe Grundy

  Mrs Jones: I'm in the UK. Sorry you weren't picked for baseball. If you want to PM me - or if anyone else does, for that matter - I'd be more than happy to have a skype or a phone chat.
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  126

  Who On This Site Would You Like To Meet?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are a lot of interesting people that frequent this site.. sometimes, we get an idea of what the posters are really like in "real life".

  and i'm sure i could be easily surprised by some that you think might be strong personalities because of their board presence, and in reality, they might be shy in a face to face setting.. i would enjoy meeting simon.

  simon used to be terribly annoyed by my posting and now i think he's accepted with tolerance my being here.. farkel seems like a grouchy cantankerous fellow but i think he'd be very interesting company!.

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  Joe Grundy

  Well, I met a lady from this site several years ago from the US who visited the UK. Charming and interesting.

  Some years ago we had a 'phone call' thing and I spoke to a lady in Phoenix Arizona. That was fascinating.
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  44

  How Christian thinking was corrupted by Paul's clever explanations

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when modern writers, thinkers, believers in christianity talk about their religion they are almost always depending on saul of tarsus (paul) rather than.

  jesus.. there is a good reason for this.

  paul wrote letters.

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  Joe Grundy

  My previous post disappeared into the ether, so apologies if it turns up later and this is a duplicate.

  In a simplistic way, I have always tended to compare Paul with Joseph Smith. Both claimed 'vsions and revelations', both started new religions incorporating previous religions, their 'facts' and 'experiences' were uncheckable and unverifiable.

  Both new religions, aided by time, distance and space (and obscuration of origins) have become - to one degree or another - 'acceptable, even 'mainstream' to many.

  I have always been intrigued by 'Paul' and there are all sorts of theories. Was he the 'wicked deceiver' mentioned in the Dead Sea writings? Who knows. I lived in Cyprus for five years until recently and visited (probably) the spot where he met with Roman governor Sergius Paulinus (that's where he changed his name to Paul) and the curious incident where he blinded the son of Jesus (see Acts). All very strange, but to me it was just a place on my morning walk by the sea to have a beer in the harbour. (may not have been THE 'Jesus' of course).

  What does seem to be beyond doubt is that Saul/Paul went off on his travels, spreading his religion. The guys back in Jerusalem, the remnants of the 'Jesus' group, felt compelled to send out their own envoys after him to correct his teachings, brought him back, where he apologised and said he wouldn't do it again.

  And - this should never be understated - to understand what was happening, look at the context, what was happening at the time (NT is very sketchy on this).

  Always remember, history is written by the victors.
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  52

  The Field Service will end someday, maybe?

  by Quarterback in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  last month i heard a talk from a c.o.

  he mentioned that the door to door service will come to an end.

  he said that jehovah will tell us to stop it, eventually.

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  Joe Grundy

  The reality - here in the real world - is that nobody cares about the strange people who are JWs, nor their strange beliefs.

  THAT, I believe, is what will finish them gradually. Nobody even cares enough to argue with them. Those people with good manners will smile, accept the the publications and put them straight in the bin. The less well-mannered will laugh in their faces. And the (as I see it) reducing number of dubs will circle their wagons, consider it to be the 'last days', congratulate themselves and study their mags for all sorts of confirmation that they (and only they) are right.

  All very sad, really, for the poor saps who have given their life to this crazy and controlling cult.
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  101

  Help with Mathematical Concepts, Not Arithmetic

  by Band on the Run in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my math background is embarassing.

  my public education was very sad.

  although i received good grades in college track math courses, i never understood the underlying ideas or motivations.

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  Joe Grundy

  Good post, Cliff, and reinforces what I was saying.